The biggest problem with "13 Reasons Why"

The premise of this show completely turned me away from it. I don't sympathize with someone who blames all their problems on other people. At a certain point, you have to acknowledge that the only person you can control is yourself & blaming everyone doesn't help anything.

*Hannah tells clay to leave in a very salty and angry way*
*Clay leaves*
Hannah:why did you leave clay?
Me:you f**@**@ psychotic b@*ch what do you mean?

maybe she is not really able to get help.. like psysicly,, but blaming everyone else is wrong. they didn't make her kill herself, they just sometimes did stupid things that were part of it. it's not her fault to be so done that she ended her life. but the show misses the point when it just acts like only because she is the victim everyone else is to blame.

Being pride and not asking for help is not a virtue in any way. I agree with you. The more I get older, the more I realize this. Our life is in our hands. Paying attention to others' feelings and helping is amazing, but not everyone is like that. If we always expect someone to reach out for us to help us, we will be always putting ourselves as the victim of our own lives.

This show has definitely been warned against quite strongly by the psychology community, and for very good reason. The show has 2 graphic scenes of rape AND a graphic depiction of how she killed herself. Their flimsy "warning " before each episode was insufficient for the content in the episode.
I also believe that it could be very triggering for people who have faced the same issues, and I agree that it seems more of a revenge fantasy than anything else.
Honestly the only characters I felt truly sorry for were her parents. What she put them through was beyond heartbreaking, especially because they were loving and tried to be supportive while she was alive. They did everything they could.
The show really did not achieve what it says its goal is. After watching it, I felt it only glorified suicide and especially told victims of rape and sexual assualt that the only way out is suicide.
It is a dangerous show for many reasons. It really should be shut down, and especially dont let kids watch it.

Great video, but there is *MUCH MORE* wrong with this show than all this.

If I remember correctly, Amanda Todd had ruined some guy's relationship on a whim & people really only cared about her suicide because she was pretty & female... So I wouldn't say she's a good example, but she's still a better example than Hannah baker

I was bored

just good old fios cable tv

Shows like these. make me glad that i'm literay the only in my whole high school who doesn't have netflix at all. or a phone

Season 2 lost all the little "sense" and structure it had... It's too graphical for something that's not even meant to be there at all.

I know this is just a show, but people are bullied way worse then she "was". Tbh, it's teasing not bulling. Like you said, she makes other people make feel like it's their fault, meanwhile she pushed them away. Like bitch, how am I supposed to know what are you thinking and feeling if you don't want me to know? She acts like ppl can read minds.
This show is a waist of money.

why do you hate every tv show i like

You’re so right. I’m glad I watched this video

When you have a mental illness it is not so easy to just open up and say what is wrong

You should watch "a girl like her" it was pretty good. Or "cyberbully" which was pretty bad

I actually hated this show. It leaves the impression that suicide solves all of your problems, and people suddenly become "good" or whatever you want to call it when you die. That's not how it works. People don't just change every aspect of their crappy personality because you died. Suicide is an important issue, and I'm not trying to belittle the meaning behind it. However, I think her mindset is a little much. She does absolutely nothing to fix her problems other then complain about it to no one but a video tape. I'd like to think that people in the real world actually attempt to solve their problems before they decide to just give up. Her story is sad, and I don't mean to be heartless, but I do think that this show makes big deals out of small things that have solutions (of course, there were some exceptions), but I did not enjoy it at all.

I feel like a lot of the time, although your points are usually valid, they’re kind of muddied by your perspective as a straight white male? That’s not a bad thing, it’s just that slut shaming like that is real even today, and people in her situation often DO feel like they’re powerless and don’t do anything, and that’s not really their fault. However, because the show acts like this is reality - that there really is no hope, not that it understandably feels like there isn’t - it gets old quick. (Not to mention a bad influence for a teen audience or anyone who’s suicidal.) And they don’t do enough to make us sympathetic to her or make it her character instead of just a prop for misery porn, so overall you’re right on target.

Honestly House 5x19 is better than this whole show

That's actually so true.
It's really hard to sympathize with someone when they want others to help them get out of their problems. That never happens and putting so much of expectations on the actions of others and not taking any responsibility for your own mistakes is digging your own grave. If she wanted to go into literature, then atleast focus on that and stop riding in two different boats

I feel like the show isn’t supposed to be completely realistic, I actually enjoy it. Sure, some stuff is glorified, and Hannah didn’t handle her situations as well as she could. But hormones, rumors, etc didn’t help and made it easy to glorify and change the way she reacted to things. I don’t think she would talk to anybody about it because me being a teen myself, I wouldn’t personally tell anybody about my situation either. Looking back she was very revenge-driven, but I can still have sympathy for her.

And the joke going on in the comments “why’d you’d have to leave”
Seriously every teenage girl has said something they didn’t mean before. Just saying “I’m fine” when you’re not is one of them. You can go after me and say “IvE nEvEr SaId SoMeThInG i DiDnT mEaN” But everyone has, at least once. Hannah’s was ofc glorified for tv purposes to get the point across but I still enjoyed the show.

I started watching 13 reason why and I have depression trust issues and social anxiety and I cut myself and now I have suicidal thoughts ever since I started watching 13 reasons why

I feel like the book was better. They changed so many things from the book that the person I felt sorry for was now someone who was unrelatable and kind of annoying.

I love your videos so much but this time I haave to disagree, as 13 reasons why helped me through my depression, instead of making me feel more depressed. I love 13rw so much

I hate 13 reasons why even though I never what it. My friends (who know what I been through) warn me to never watch it because tgere is a high possibilities that I would do something that should never do. Plus that show showed the views that should never showed.

Sorry but I strongly disagree with the statement that her suicide was her last try to get attention. The character Hannah doesn't care about standing out or getting attention (apart from the tapes) and also, it's disrespectful to talk about suicide like that. Someone's life has ended and you're belittling it by saying it was "just for attention".

How is this revenge? She just pass the tapes among the people who she thought was involved, she didn't send them to the police or any with any authority.

Sometimes you feel if you dont tell poeple leave bbeecause you dont want to be a burden but you dont acually want them go

I didn’t like the show.
However, I don’t think Hanna's behaviour non realistic. I actually really can understand why she would appear as a confident, witty girl and at the same time unable to speak up about her troubles. I have the very same issue. And trust me, it’s not easy to deal with. In fact, that’s the reason why she killed her self. Because she was unable to resolve her problems some other way. She was unable to see the possibility to actually talk with someone about what happened. Yes, she cried for attention. Because she probably felt like someone needs to make her tell all those stuff because she knew she needed to speak about it, but she couldn’t do that by her self.
Is that a likeable character? No.
Is that a realistic description of someone who could possibly commit a suicide? Yes. If she saw it possible to speak about her problems,she wouldn’t kill her self. The fact that otherwise, she’s not shy, that she can make jokes and be sarcastic... well, I can be sarcastic and joke around and give people hard time and tell them to go away, and at the same time, in my head, cry for help. But as I am totally unable to do that aloud,I’m in trouble. The jokes and the wit are just a shield which can hide my real emotions and I’m scared to death someone might see through and at the same time, I hope,really hope someone will see through. And sometimes yes, I’m also a little bit mad that people I really like don’t see through. But I know this all is a mental condition I need to work with. Hanna in the story did not know that. That’s why she died. In my opinion.

I watched this whole show and there was a part at the end with a Male student and a broom handle. Just gotta say I hate how this show handled this situation.

everything you’ve said in this video is true,

This was a fantastic video. I want more people to see this and realize they created a glamorized world that’s totally unrealistic. You explained everything that some viewers found to be “just a bit off”. Awesome job
Btw: Really enjoyed this style of video

If they really wanted to depict mental health, they maybe should’ve went about it a different way. Seeing her either always tired or never sleeping would be one. Getting inside her head in some scenes. I mean, there are lots of ways the writers could’ve went about doing this.
For those who killed themselves because of the show is simply a reaction. You never know how each and every person is going to react to something you put it there, whether it be a movie, show, tweet, whatever. So, it’s really just an outcome.

you make a lot of valid points but the fact that she couldn't say that she was raped is something you shouldn't be blaming her for. you make it sound like it's her fault she couldn't say it when in reality people can't. because they think it's their fault or any number of reasons. so her not telling mr porter about it is perfectly normal. yeah, she should have told him, but also she couldn't. it's very common amongst rape victims. it can take months for them to say it. maybe even years. so like you can't blame her for that. and you can't blame her for freaking out with the whole clay kissing thing. it happens if you've had enough bad experiences. and i dont think she expected him to stay, she just wishes he hadn't now that she's looking back at it.

THIS IS THE GOOD NEWS : WE ALL SINNED SO WE ARE UNRIGHTEOUS TO GOD. SIN WARRANTS DEATH BUT JESUS TOOK OUR PUNISHMENT OF DEATH BY LIVING A SINLESS LIFE SO HE PAID THE PRICE FOR SIN. THUS HE PROVIDES SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE. FOR THIS WONDERFUL GIFT OF PROMISED PARADISE, WE JUST HAVE TO TRUST & BELIEVE IN JESUS AS THE SAVIOR AND ONE TRUE WAY TO GOD LET THE LORD BLESS THRU THIS MESSAGE,

the mention of the amanda todd story oh my gosh :/ i completely forgot about her

I've never watched the show and the only thing I can relate to is being in highschool, but in my experience most people don't give a damn about photos of you or anyone else or at least, don't say anything at school. Another thing, the whole 'group text to the entire school's thing seems really far fetched. I mean, I've never even heard of more than one friend group having a group chat or anything spreading like that. I could just be sheltered or whatever, but throughout my entire school experience I've never got the impression that anyone cared what you post/share and tend to mind their own business.
Oh and depression and especially depression leading to suicide is almost always either rooted in or influenced by a psychological disorder or illness of some kind or in a physiological issue, like a hormone/chemical imbalance.

I think this just shows us that 13 Reasons is essentially a hypothetical treated as something that could plausibly happen. I think it derives its appeal partly from the fact that we get to hear the thoughts of a victim that, in real life, could no longer speak for themselves and probably would not have mustered the strength to do so in the way this hypothetical scenario requires to become plausible as a narrative.
The whole appeal of the plot, put bluntly, rests on a logical impossibility. This is its major flaw.

Obviously I’m not saying Hannah is completely right, but when you’re depressed, when you’re a teenage girl with conflicting emotions and low self-esteem, it’s really hard. I have been through multiple breakdowns where it’s built up (I have a very difficult home life) and it can happen anywhere. Of course, I don’t want anyone to see me cry, so I go somewhere where I can be alone. Most recently, I had a mental breakdown on a winter camp and someone called me a witch, which really isn’t the worst I’ve been called, but in the situation I had to say I was ill and run to my dorm. I desperately didn’t want anyone to see me cry, but at the same time, I needed someone to tell me that the world didn’t hate me. I kept crying until eventually my friend found me. Another time I was literally at the point where I was seriously considering throwing myself in front of a passing car, and the only reason I’m alive is because I got a text from a friend. If that hadn’t happened... I’d be dead.
What I’m trying to say is that it’s not so easy, and this show shows that.

The biggest problem with 13 reasons why is that they glorify suicide. Hey you're feeling bad and like no one cares? Have you considered killing yourself? As you can see from our series it's the ultimate revenge and everyone will be SUPER broken up about the way they treated you.

To be completely honest I can't watch this show without getting triggered to harm myself.

personally... i think its hard to tell someone about your problems even parents. it's scary. when i old my parents i was depressed and wanted to talk to a therapist they said to just talk to them and ignored it basically. Also making it worse with their own issues. I also let a nurse know and she said i was too young to be depressed and that was that. In reality its not easy to find help, and it just made me think it was all in my head. And that is exactly how I viewed the show. I thought if Hannah even said what was going on she wouldn't get the help she needed. She couldn't even say it was rape when she was trying to get help with the councilor and he said Bryce was going to get away with it anyways even if she came forward. Yes hannah was outspoken and direct, but her self esteem was going down and maybe she wasn't as courageous as she seemed to stand up for herself when her picture was being spread. But I do agree they shouldn't have had the show be about revenge. That ruined it.

*Suicide portrayed by 13 reasons why:* a glamorous weapon

Yeah this show annoyed me so much

Borderline personality disorder maybe..

Agreed that both Hannah and the show do seem too hard against both Mr. Porter and especially Clay (although she admitted that she was being a little too hard and unfair to Clay, he wasn't really to blame).

Her former friends pushed her away at least as much, if not much more, than she pushed them away

The book was different but still had problems with the portrayal of depression in it. Thanks for clearing it up!

I can’t be the only one who enjoyed this show

Thank you so much! I honestly always said that, and no one ever agreed with me. I'd say more, but it's not the time.

I was thinking the same thing! She told him no and to go. Had he stayed he would have been in trouble for not listening to her telling him no. No means no. The counselor asked her multiple times how should he know that the six time he asked you will be the golden time that you would actually come out with information.

Generally, I tend to agree with you. There is a lot of harm that has come from this show. I don't recommend it to any teenager, especially any with mental health or real issues they are going through. That being said, when I watched this movie, it was about 4 years after the darkest part of my life. I've been in therapy, gone through lots of healing since then. This show reminded me very heavily of that time. It's easy to forget, as an adult, how toxic the high school environment can be. This show, in some respects, hit the nail on the head in the sense that high school sucks and adults are not always a trustworthy source.
Because I get it.
My best friend dragged me to the school counselor for self harming, because she recognized that she could not help me like I needed. The counselor called my mom and did nothing after the fact to follow up with an unstable, potentially a threat to herself student. He trusted my parents to deal with it, despite my parents being half of the issue. Sure, I didn't tell him my full story. But I was distrusting and afraid, and my interactions with him and my parents only exponentially increased that mistrust.
My mom picked me up from school that day and interrogated me, asking if I was anorexic, suicidal, what the hell was wrong with me. I shut down, because she wanted a perfect daughter, and anything I said would only somehow fuel her control complex.
Yet once we got home that day and she let me have a "mental health day", nothing further was done. She basically said, "don't cut anymore" and expected me to be fine.
It was at that point that my high school self came to a recognition that "trustworthy adults" are not safe. I didn't stop being unhealthy, I merely got better at hiding it.
I was sexually abused by someone who the people in my life idolized; he was the golden child, and I didn't feel safe enough to tell anyone who would believe me. Or if they did, he would somehow get revenge on me. A lot of the time, speaking out about sexual abuse is really freaking hard. I didn't have "proof." Only PTSD and memories that I'll never erase. His word against mine.
So yes, this show is absolutely a catalyst for an increase in suicidal behavior. But I hope somehow that the adults who watch this show, the teachers and parents, can see somehow the conflict in telling the truth and not knowing who to trust, especially as your mental and emotional health spiral and you don't have a healthy support system. Because the toxic atmosphere represented by this show is reality. Hormonal, faction-centric groups of young people don't make good corporate choices.
As someone who has spoken up to parents, school counselors, church leaders, about self harm and suicidal thoughts and been shrugged off or minimized, I hope adults in positions of trust take this show as a warning- take young adults seriously. If they tell you something that seems like it was spit out like a hot bite, don't just give them the 5 minutes they scheduled with you and never follow up. That brief confession was the tip of a very dark iceberg. But they won't let you in if you don't seem to care. If you won't invest the time. And for God's sake, if you're worried someone is going to hurt themselves, report it. To people who will legally do something.
Anyway, that's my rant. This show absolutely glorifies suicide, intentionally or not. And no vulnerable teenager should be watching it. But as someone who spent all of high school wrestling with suicidal thoughts and self harm, I can tell you there is truth in her inability to talk to adults and get help. That doesn't justify her killing herself. But I hope that the adults who can do something will see this as a warning and do something if and when they interact with at risk teenagers.
And if you are struggling, know this. The adults in your life are not all bad. I know it's scary to talk about it. If you need help finding someone and you don't feel like your parents are safe, there are resources, hotlines, places you can go and people you can talk to and be supported. I know it's cliche but it's cliche for a reason. Things do get better. High school sucks, and you don't have as much control over your life and the environment you find yourself in day in and day out. But once you graduate, you choose the life you create. Don't let people trap you into staying in toxic environments once it's in your control to be free from it.
I went through sexual abuse, emotional and spiritual manipulation by my parents, and came out on the other side, alive and thriving with faded scars as a reminder of what I experienced. You are not alone, please reach out.

Don't you think that the creators of the series intended to make Hannah like that? To show that if you use suicide as a weapon for revenge, if you refuse to help yourself or seek help from others, you will NEVER be the "hero" of your story - just some attention-seeking asshole.

I never really liked the show because they claim they’re tackling real life problems everyday teenage girls experience in high school and while that’s good to talk about stuff like that their approach is soooooo unrealistic. Like the whole reaction to that upskirt photo in today’s high schools, would only be talked about for like 1 day. And then there’s the whole huge stigma about people who commit suicide only doing it for attention and that’s just not true I’d argue most that do were probably getting too much negative attention, but with her coming up with the 13 tapes it really perpetuates that stereotype.

There is nothing wrong with 13 reasons why it's the best show ever

To be fair, in the book, at least, the councellor could have been more helpful.
He could and should have pointed her towards therap and further counselling and didn't, instead pretty much saying, IIRC, that she could either press charges or put it behind her and move on. She asks, understandably, how she could possibly move on, and he has no good answer.
"Move on and put it behind you" is terrible advice to give to someone who has experienced something traumatic. If you go experience a sexual assault, you need therapy to work your way through it.
Then again, I don't know how it's handled in the series, so maybe this is all irrelevant.

It doesn’t bode well for your web series about depression and suicide when another series about a talking horse is better at portraying mental illness than yours.

I know it’s a show but I really got mad when watching episodes were everything was part of Hannah’s dramatic persona, like Clay’s or Zach’s tape.

man u deserve more subscribers, ur content is one of the best thats out there

please do season two.

I haven’t seen the show, but I had a thought or two about the topics expressed in Alex’s vid. From what I can tell, what makes Hannah a tragic character is that she has worked herself into a mindset where she believes she is a victim, for whom no one cares, and she uses the fact that people cannot understand what she truly wants as proof of this. She has the mentality that if someone truly cared for her, they would stay/comfort her/try to save her in spite of her protests and voiced desire to be alone. It is almost as if it is a game of “how far can I push it until they give up.” Only if they could truly understand her, even when she sends conflicting messages, could they prove themselves to her. If not, she just wins in her mind anyways by validating the opinion that she is mistreated by others. Her “test” is impossible to pass by design. And Alex is right, this makes her completely unsympathetic, because normally we feel sympathy for those who cannot help themselves. Her character is tragic because, on some level, she really just doesn’t want to be helped, or take any initiative to seek it out. She trapped herself on a mental level.

Well that's how depression is .... it's like u want to push everyone away but still need help....

This show does not draw my attention

I aggree with everythin you said

Them; *make a whole show about a suicidal girl who only gets cared about after she kills herself*
Also them; we just want you to know suicide isn't the only option
WTF

I be *fLoSSin’*

I completely agree with the point of her getting angry when people don’t come back after they leave. Like wtf they can’t read ur mind

Well said! Absolutely agree! Suicide needs to be talked about, not sensationalized by Hollywood. It’s a real threat not something to make money over. Again just my opinion

Hannah Baker was toxic. I read the book and thought the same too.

I'm really happy that someone is finally talking about the programs in this show 😒

I only read the book, but I hated how one of the reasons was "You didn't stop a rape of someone else I could've stopped even easier and that makes me feel bad, so shame on you". I just finished the book feeling Hannah was a pretty horrible person

I have depression and after I watched this show, I had nightmares, random thoughts like "hey, why don't you kill yourself" because its so fucking explicit and triggering especially to those who struggle with mental illness. This show is portraying mental illness wrong but is praising itself for how much it is helping. Garbage.

The ppl saying get this show ban fuck you. Yes the show have many problems but it talks about real problems. In Hannah’s case she did a poor job by blaming everyone instead of reporting what happened

The book was soo much better. I couldn't even get though the series cause I got stressed out

My mental helth dropped so bad after watching this show like half a year ago... I'm fine now tho, xd.

It's different in the book

Yeah but you don’t understand how hard it is for someone with depression to talk plus you feel nothing so you don’t care what happens to you

I have chronic depression and went attempted to kill myself last year it was a spur of the moment decision(I'm not sure if that's normal I've never met anyone else with depression). So I definitely didn't record tapes and shit. It was kind of like my body was on autopilot and I just started overdosing on any pills in my house. Its a good thing at 21(and even now at 22) I still live with my parents because the paramedics told my best friend and my parents that if I hadn't got to the hospital when I did(my best friend called 911 because my parents had just thought I was sleeping in at the time because I stayed up all night prior to the suicide attempt) I would have died.
Now I have a phobia of pills and alcohol(which is what I drank with the pills).
Anyway just know it gets better and killing yourself may end your pain but it causes a lot more for the other people in your life.

Everyone is a fucking analyst in the comments. I mean I don’t like this show either but you should realise that Hannah does not have to be a good person just because she’s the main character. She can be the lead character and still have a shit personality

Logic and J. Aiko's song, the title of which is the Suicide hotline, did more to help people battling with suicide, Like a Ton more.

Thank you. As soon as I read the premise for this Book I was like Nah. So when the show came out, I was like Hard pass.

Sorry, but you clearly don't understand how high school an depression works...

So I think this is quite a case of bipolar disorder.
"Leave"
"Sure"
"Why'd you have to leave?"

13 Reasons Why has to be one of the worst shows on Netflix.

I think this show was really strong and it feels so real but it hits way too close home so idk what I feel when I watch it

You act like her not wanting to talk about the rape or her problems is unrealistic - it's absolutely realistic. It's the largest reason why rapists do not ever get punished. I feel like you might not have a clear understanding of mental illness.

The problem with this show is that it is enternaining to watch, but at the same time the message it delivered is terrible. For a show who wants to "start a conversation", it really presents conversation as something impossible... Nobody really talks to each other, and the one time Hannah tried, it failed. How is that supposed to encourage people to ask for help?

You should have been more constructive on it it’s a pretty poor show and basically nuts over “self sacrifice “ for the conversation to start

I agree with this entire video. I thought I was the only one that thought Hannah was being unnecessarily stubborn towards any opportunity to help her

That's the issue with Hollywood and this TV show in trying to emulate real life. It does not work because the real world is not an ideology. 13 Reasons Why is unrealistic in illustrating mental illness and suicides and the motives behind them. Why don't the actors know this?

I didn't understand, why Hannah would stay at the night of the party with Bryce alone, when all the drunk kids left? I mean she witnessed Bryce raping her friend before, what did she expect from him inside that tub late at night and alone?

Okay you should totally redo this video with the style you use now

Kermit suicide

This chick is a fucking pussy and has no accountablity

Very awesome show

I agree with a lot you say. But I think you don't get that this show wants to show a realistic vision on suicide AND be a an entertaining show. They wanted to mix some of these elements. No one would want to watch a show just about suicide, thats too dark

This is literally the your first video that I 100% agree with you.Hannah was really just such a confusing character,maybe the writters thought it would be emotional and be realistic.But you can't be realistic if you don't stick to the point.

Thank you!!!

I'll alltimes think the victim is CLAY. I'm reading the book of 13 reasons why and i felt more sorry for him then for anyone Else. They liked each other for a long Time and they just felt like it's their fault. I think Hannah has a bit fault but clay just tried to let her Make her own decision. And clay have no Choice and have to feel sorry even if its dificulter

One of the things that annoys me about people who dislike this show is their argument of “some people have tried to kill themselves because of this show” which would be a completely valid argument, if it wasn’t for the fact that stuff like that almost always happens with tv shows and movies, why do you think we have “do not try this at home” warnings? Because someone tried something at home that was stupid and they got hurt.