Foreshadowing Is Not Character Development

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  • Published on May 15, 2019
  • Let’s talk the final season of Game of Thrones and Mad Queen Daenerys! A little different to my other vids in that it’s less focused on a “trope” and more about a character and her arc. Just needed to get this out of my system. What do you think of season 8? Leave a comment! And if you liked the video please thumbs up and subscribe if you're new here :)
    Also, if you could translate subtitles in any language I'd appreciate it! Thank you to those that added Russian, Spanish, Italian, Korean, Portuguese, German and French.
    Made a new twitter: twitter.com/tahkawa
    Background music:
    The Dark Glow of the Mountains by Chris Zabriskie is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution licence (creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/)
    Source: chriszabriskie.com/darkglow/
    Artist: chriszabriskie.com/
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Comments • 10 319

  • Trope Anatomy
    Trope Anatomy  Month ago +981

    edit: back on twitter if you wanna follow me: twitter.com/tahkawa
    _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
    Original comment: Been a while lol Hope you liked the video! Please thumbs up the video if you did 😊 Sorry this one is so Thrones heavy for those that don’t watch the show. I’ll be back with something broader (unless I make a video on the final episode). Hopefully it won’t take months! Thank you a ton for 50k subs and being patient with my non existent upload schedule.

    • Hingle McCringleberry
      Hingle McCringleberry 18 days ago

      @Trope Anatomy ouch, turn of the auto-translate for other countries!!!!!!! "Vorausdeutungen sind keine Charakterentwicklung" that is not even real german. nobody likes that youtube feature!!!!

    • Sky Walker
      Sky Walker 25 days ago

      It's like you almost had it but messed up with your theory of how the show was successful at showing that Dany could turn dark. There were not. Plain and simple. That's why it was never going to work in the end for her to have the sudden character change, sorry. As I said before, they would have had to change her character altogether. It seems GRRM and D&D never knew how to really did this so they just rolled with her character becoming increasingly popular.

    • ComaBerenices
      ComaBerenices 26 days ago

      RJ Tiger, “Rationalise past people in history”? Well, let’s see. Hitler didn’t destroy Paris when it surrendered to him. Stalin didn’t torch all Germans when Berlin surrendered to him (even though the Germans killed Stalin’s own son). So what’s Daenerys’ “sudden madness” then? That she’s literally more angry, violent & merciless than Hitler and Stalin? 😂

  • Forte cloud
    Forte cloud 14 hours ago

    your voice sucks #Sorrynotsorry

  • Kingdom of Hungary

    People are criticizing the hitler scene but fam remember hitler was a normal ass guy until ww1 and a bunch of other wack shit happened in his life that made him go insane



    By the way I’m about as far as you can get from a Nazi supporter (I’m a socialist lol)

  • Caroline Hafner
    Caroline Hafner Day ago

    Perfect analysis and narration. Excellent video on the subject, thank you!

  • Sabalghoo
    Sabalghoo Day ago

    Great video, you articulated everyone's thoughts and feeling towards the Mad Queen development perfectly!
    Subscribed 👍

  • Mariyam Shaikh
    Mariyam Shaikh 2 days ago

    EXACTLY WHAT I FELT FOR DANY!
    D & D should be shown this video
    It's a slap on their face
    She choses humanity and still sansa fans and dany haters call it nothing
    They lamely say that
    " Oh she did it to save herself "
    Your a**
    She did it cz it was the right thing u dipshits!

  • Staas Wolter
    Staas Wolter 2 days ago

    This was a very good video analyzing storytelling. I did not want her to kill millions. I personally feel every season should have had at least 10 episodes. You cannot rush a product, or the quality will fail. That is why Marvel makes great films. I hope the prequels to GoT especially Roberts Rebellion is much better. The main thing in Season 8 I'm furious at is not seeing Jon duel the Night King. That was his arch enemy and his story arc and he was robbed of it.

  • Stylezz iR
    Stylezz iR 2 days ago

    I’m late on this comment. But thank you. You’d talked about every little bit of detail for this character. Thank you. Dan was one of my favorite character. And I’m ok with her being the mad queen. I’m ok with that and Jon and the north realize she needs to die. That’s fine. But yea. They absolutely screwed her character over.

  • George Cambray
    George Cambray 2 days ago

    You obviously haven’t had anything really bad happen to you, otherwise you would realize the pain Dany suffered from losing TWO children, two of her Best Friends and getting rejected by Jon. Take that into account when you wonder why she burned down King’s Landing

  • Angry Bird
    Angry Bird 2 days ago

    clearly directors nowadays think we just want pew pew pew and we'll be happy, we're showing them we disagree and we're pissed but still millions show up at the theaters so they just keep going with pew pew pew stories.

  • CynthiaBianca2
    CynthiaBianca2 3 days ago +1

    Agreed, this was CHARACTER ASSASSINATION!!!

  • Virginia Salvatierra

    Its over.

  • fonte luminosa
    fonte luminosa 4 days ago +3

    And yet a Disney foolish ending is what they did. To Tyrion, Bronn, Sansa, Bran, Sam and other....

  • sitamun
    sitamun 4 days ago +2

    I think in the books, Aegon Targaryen, the pretender posing as Rhaegar and Elia’s son, will be Daenerys’ downfall. He is a smart and well-loved young man who is showing great talent in the art of rulership and military strategy (being educated by Varys and Illyrio Mopatis). The last we saw him, he was already campaigning in Westeros to take the Iron Throne, whilst at the same time, Daenerys is struggling to keep Meereen under control as everyone tears her city apart. I think in the future, when Dany arrives in Westeros, seeing Aegon be everything she wanted to be in a ruler (loved, respected and supported by the common folk) may trigger in her a desperation to assert herself as a ruler just as strong and capable as Aegon and to protect what is ‘rightfully’ hers. She may even kill him to ensure that the Iron Throne belongs to her and her alone. Just like in the show, I think Aegon Targaryen will be a test for Dany and how she responds will ultimately seal her fate.

  • jaypee zulieta
    jaypee zulieta 4 days ago

    A good hero turning evil character arc = Arthas
    Even games have better writers

  • William Munny
    William Munny 5 days ago

    She snapped. Soldiers commit war crimes during battle all the time. And she could not be kept alive for two seasons. She had to be taken out quickly . She declared her plan to continue conquer by dragon fire. Her demise is not so unbelievable. Don’t overthink this

  • Rosamund Powell
    Rosamund Powell 5 days ago +1

    I am going to argue against her end. I'm going to argue against it, because we've already seen the "mad queen" trope play out with Cersei Lannister by the end of Season 6. Having Daenerys succumb to the same trope within two episodes and twelve episodes is just ridiculous to me. And very unoriginal. I have no problem with Daenerys being capable of ruthlessness and cruelty. She wasn't alone. Many characters on that show were . . . including Ned Stark's children and nephew. It didn't matter whether the characters were originally painted as protagonists or antagonists, many of them were capable of being cruel and ruthless. But to have Daenerys repeat Cersei's character arc, let alone in such a short space of time, was simply ridiculous to me.

  • CheesecakeLasagna
    CheesecakeLasagna 5 days ago

    This gives me HIMYM finale flashbacks.

  • PrkrMc
    PrkrMc 6 days ago

    Mad Danny should've been an entire season or two. Mad Danny on a dragon would be the greatest villain ever seen. Then put Jon on the other dragon fighting against Daenerys and you got yourself the greatest season in television ever.

  • Marie Schröder
    Marie Schröder 6 days ago

    I can’t believe it... Daenerys IS NOT MAD. I can’t explain what she is but she isn’t mad...

  • Amanda Frazier
    Amanda Frazier 6 days ago +1

    And another thing. If they wanted us pouncing on a breadcrumb trail of sinister moments foretelling a character's turn towards murderous lunacy, can I just direct all our attention back over to the girl with the collection of actual human faces? Hey, I enjoyed Arya's killing spree as much as the next gal, but let's be real: there were times when she had a borderline Joffrey-esque glee in her own sadism. Pushing the sword reeeal slowly into the guy in the tavern brawl with the hound, looking psyched while she did it? Blissing out while she perforated Meryn Trent? Staring down at Walder Frey like she was gonna need a frickin' cigarette? And hey, not saying any of them didnt earn a good bloody end. But her demeanor "laid the seeds" of homicidal madness far more thoroughly than anything Dany ever did. "I k ow a killer when I see one." Thanks, Suzie Stabs-a-Lot. Thank you for that valuable insight.

  • 金정욱
    金정욱 6 days ago

    Check out Game theory’s Daenerys is going mad theory.

  • Mr Predatorrz
    Mr Predatorrz 8 days ago

    Is it just me who thinks the unsullied should have just been wiped out by now after Mereen rebels mereen war with the rich taking castley rock and the the ice king war and the kings landing war there was only 8000 so I doubt that they should have a significant number by the end unless they are just duplicating

  • Mr Predatorrz
    Mr Predatorrz 8 days ago

    I don’t think Arya did kill Walder Frey’s children I think it was just a plan to make him feel like he had no hope screaming/yelling would do nothing. His children where killed with poison when drinking that sweet sweet wine

  • X Night x Wing x
    X Night x Wing x 8 days ago +1

    Uhm yeah, those examples you gave about daenarys being foreshadowed, are horrible fucking examples. She killed people that put her life in jeopardy, or put innocents lives at jeopardy. Same as every other fucking character has done on the show. Everything she did up until the point she burnt kings landing had reason and was 100% justified.
    I had to stop watching and downvote you after that, not sure what your getting at but it doesn’t make sense. You say you don’t agree with the writers, yet you list retarded examples of “foreshadowing” when she killed people that deserved to die?

  • Tony Sinc
    Tony Sinc 8 days ago

    Lmao you said that the show blamed it on genetics 😂😂 wow. They never said that lol . Just cause you don’t understand the difference between foreshadowing and psychology doesn’t mean they didn’t have any base to her decision.

  • jackson waters
    jackson waters 8 days ago

    They could of just make the whole season about Dany slowly becoming emotionally unstable and see her tragic downfall. Most episodes in got are more than just 6 episodes. They had plenty of time to do this. And if it took longer then they should of been prepared for this change for the character. I think the reason why season 8 was disappointing was because D and D just wanted to end the show so badly. They just couldn't keep up the show forever and being exhausted after trying to create new source material (since they ran out of books) must of been too much for them. So they got lazy and rushed passed everything that could of been great. Any potential was wasted by the writers just to wrap up the show already.

  • Jonny B
    Jonny B 10 days ago

    I don't know. Dragon Fire doesn't seem all that bad of a way to die, as far as dying goes, haha. I mean, all your nerves are incinerated within a second flat.

  • CatzEyes93
    CatzEyes93 10 days ago

    We went from three strong, empowered women with independent goals and dreams to their last major scenes being them begging men to stay with them until the end.

  • Alexandre Lot
    Alexandre Lot 10 days ago

    Daenerys and Anakin share both a tragedy in power (and love, ultimatly). But personally, I don't trully believe the timing was a problem. Writing and motivating for the characters was something that frustrated in overall. People "kinda of forgetting" or pointless arcs without any reasonable logic, when the people of Game of Thrones are deeply envolved in clever strategies and smart positioning. We can argue whenever this strategies were in fact trully effective (but that is afterall, the "Game" of Thrones). That is why the downfall of Anakin seems more logic, although a lot more hushed, than Dany's. He does a complete strategical move against the Jedi, motivated not only by his love for Padme, his deception makes closure by denial of his own actions that lead him to his ultimate mistake and because he trully belives that the Jedi were plotting on his back. Dany is put in the same position, also feeling betrayed because her advisors plotted on her back, but everything was done at light of her own actions, she never denied fire and blood, but there would only be two plot subvertions here. Either she would kill Cersei and destroys the city if the Lannister Army and King's Landing people resisted her, making her decision coherent to a strategy failure from Cersei, but also making Dany sure that Fire and Blood should be at least her policy (Jorah, Barristan and Tyrion knew how to control the Fire and Blood at some point...) or giving up the attack as it would not progress to slaughter, deposing Cersei for good giving her the same "end" as she gave to Ned...

  • Daenerys Targaryen
    Daenerys Targaryen 10 days ago

    I agree with you kind sir! 😊

  • Guess my name
    Guess my name 10 days ago

    I'm gonna go to the book store and buy the books instead now

  • Hy-drenalin
    Hy-drenalin 11 days ago

    Couldn`t said it better. It is exactly that.

  • Brownei
    Brownei 11 days ago +3

    And I guess, the writers kinda forgot about the characters they wrote about

  • Brownei
    Brownei 11 days ago

    Something dies inside of me, anytime I see a shot of the red wedding

  • Gaia Elkington
    Gaia Elkington 11 days ago

    As a person who works with stories for a living (not on GOT) NICE analysis

  • Hector Lugo
    Hector Lugo 12 days ago +1

    I wholeheartedly agree.
    Just a few thoughts: If any character, Cersei was The Mad Queen she, threatened, lied, cheated, had children by her brother, murdered a King, blew up the Sept of Bailor and all it’s trial attendees both friend and foe and with it an entire section and civilians in King’s Landing. Now that was crazy!
    In the final episode I noticed, that Cersi never commanded that the bells ring in surrender because the bells were never meant to ring for surrender. Consequently, we never saw who rang the bells. Jaimie was busy getting to Cersi. That “bell ploy,” was Tyrion’s invention. Suspecting that he was a traitor, knowing he had released his Brother Jaimie, Dyanaris couldn’t trust him and seeing Cersei watching calmly from her balcony, who could blame her for fearing a trap. And rightfully so, The Queen of Dragons was, “Not today Lannisters!” and Fire and Blood had its reign. Dyanaris wasn’t a Mad Queen, her downfall came when she told Jon (brainwashed by Tyrion) that, those with other opinions as to what is good, would not get to choose and since that included Sansa, and Arya. He stabbed her to save his family, not kill a new tyrant. And don’t get me started on “Bran the Broken,” who came “...all this way,” to be King. That final Season had more wholes than a slice of rotting Swiss Cheese! I hope GRRM clears this mess up sooner than later in THE WINDS OF WINTER & A DREAM OF SPRING. Write GRRM, write!

  • Nick Corvello
    Nick Corvello 12 days ago

    Excellent video, sir! You nailed it right on the head exactly why the "mad queen" turn didn't work in the show

  • Shamaiah Ellis
    Shamaiah Ellis 13 days ago

    Point blank all the characters went dumb and dumber yes you can argue that dany burns her enemies but never the innocent that's why kingslanding was such a disappointment.
    Here is my take on an ending
    Cersie point blank refuses to fight the night this immediately prompts a war with Cersie right there and then because dany is now pissed off. It causes a conflict with Jon who goes back to the north to fight his war being disappointed in dany's decision.
    And so the war of Cersie and dany begins. Dany gives the people of kingslanding a choice to be free they refuse and choose cersie. Tyrion tries to convince his sister that she will fall and what not but you know cersie.
    She has a discussion with Jamie about about her master plan to destroy dany Jamie starts to see her as even more of a monster.
    Dany loses a dragon in that war loses missande realizes the people there hate and fear her she is now disgusted they chose Cersie. when some of her unsallieds and dothraki breach the wall and all seems lost for cersie she lights the dragon fire under the city killing some of danies army and her own bought army and the ppl of kingslanding she hates so much because thats cersie
    Dany is outraged looks at the castle in disgust and rides drogon to burn it with the true mad queen she escapes but is captured by greyworm who gets the orders from danny to cut her head off dany now hates what the throne represents after everything burns it and snow immediately starts to fall and everything cuts to jon and the comming battle of winterfell which looks like a lost battle.
    Dany goes back to winterfell where all the major deaths happen within the long night. This in my opinion should have been the last stand. Then a ninth season raps up everything with the night king. And who gets to live or die then who after gets to build a new legacy seeing the throne was destroyed by danny.

  • obsessive fangirl
    obsessive fangirl 13 days ago

    Look how they massacred my girl. Can you please please do a video on Jaime like this this was so well done.

  • Anant Singh Durgavanshi
    Anant Singh Durgavanshi 13 days ago +2

    Sansa proved to be the greatest bitch

  • Anant Singh Durgavanshi
    Anant Singh Durgavanshi 13 days ago +7

    I used to respect Varys a lot in the beginning.
    He used to be intelligent, the spider , master of whispers and what not until he came to aid Dany.
    He really became impotent when he was serving Dany.
    We don't see any of his children spies around him, while he used to aid Dany.
    As soon as he turned against her, children came back to him.
    Well this is of no surprise, Tyrion Lannister, the most witty character used to be so productive even against stannis , in his "first war", even though he didn't knew much about his enemy. But when he comes to aid Dany he becomes stupid all of a sudden-all his strategies prove useless against his sister, whom he knew quite well.
    Jon Snow - The "most honourable", in seven kingdoms could behead, hang ppl who went against rules--is justified.
    When Dany burns Tarlys, even after giving them a choice, and even though its war--still she is mad.
    I won't justify what Dany did in the concluding episodes, but extremely disappointed by the way which show developers used.
    After a great character build up of 7 fu**in seasons, You turn her mad, simply because there had been long suspicions and talks of her going mad, and that she is daughter of someone who went mad? or just to make sure the show did not end being too predictable?
    The show makers should have at least shown a transition in character so that all this cud have been digested. Maybe things r quite different in books, but they completely ruined the show finale for sure.

    • Sheets Choc
      Sheets Choc 13 days ago +1

      Anant Singh Durgavanshi Summed up my thoughts 👍

  • Vincent Cuti
    Vincent Cuti 13 days ago

    Cersie made a better mad queen.

  • LoveInTheLight
    LoveInTheLight 13 days ago

    I agree, I was a mother of dragons fan in the very beginning but then I started to noticed something off in her personality.. ANYWAY supposably the directors had made a deadline for the show to end at a 'specific date' for the show to end because they wanted to get started on other projects. So they rushed it, I like how the battle at winterfell came over but when Arya killed him at the very end.. hm was too easy? I mean yes she's a total badass, she's an assassin. I get how they did Dany's cuz in a way it seems like she just snaps. She's held back for so long that it just came out like "Fuck this". And burned everything. I really liked the ending I'm just a Lil disappointed that there wasn't more to show.

  • May Louw
    May Louw 14 days ago

    No this is like real life, where there is no rhyme or reason... which is why I love and hate this twist at the same time. You are expecting logic and reason for characters under extreme stress. Absolute power???

    • Sheogorath
      Sheogorath 13 days ago

      Speaking of real life, rules do exist and many, many books written about such rules as to what logic and reason to expect from people in extreme situations. In the german criminal code that is especially §§ 32-35.

  • I'm LordOfTheChin
    I'm LordOfTheChin 14 days ago

    Hey donate to Emilia Clarke's charity SameYou www.justgiving.com/fundraising/justicefordaenerys
    *This does not go into Emilia's personal bank account* www.sameyou.org/about/

  • Hero of Trains
    Hero of Trains 14 days ago

    I think just a little scene where she sees, just a few perhaps, people of Kingslanding being disgusting in her eyes would have helped. Like maybe citizens robbing each other, trampling children, lords abandoning peasants, peasants abandoning family.
    So Dany looks and thinks, “This is what I bleed for? This is what I fought YEARS for, sacrificed my dragons and armies for? For this degenerate shit hole? No.. No, damn these people. Damn this city. Damn everything.”

    • Sheogorath
      Sheogorath 13 days ago

      You can write that down easily, ie damn all, but it's extremely far away from doing so in reality. As shown in the show her "decision" ( be it rational or emotional ) makes no sense whatsoever.

  • Ange
    Ange 14 days ago +2

    D&D just use her past as their cover up because the decision came out of nowhere.

  • LDBlokland
    LDBlokland 14 days ago

    Never seen the show, but damn this Dany person seems like a dick

  • Vanessa Ives
    Vanessa Ives 14 days ago

    Mad Queen my ass! That title goes to Cersei! She has gained the right to be called The Mad Queen since episode one! But unfortunately the writers had it that Cersei would die some poor sobbing pregnant woman whilst the breaker of chains gets the tyrant/mad status all because of her Targaryen name!

  • The Eye Odin Lost
    The Eye Odin Lost 14 days ago +1

    You summed it up well. Honestly, its basically that. :I

  • Lucas Vasconcelos
    Lucas Vasconcelos 14 days ago +1

    Tyrion saying that cheering Daenerys for killing evil people is a bad thing is ridiculous. Since when this is a bad thing? The only time killing someone evil is seen as a bad thing is when Jaime kills the Mad King. People started to call Jaime the Kingslayer and say that he was not an honorable man for that. Still this is nothing compared to Tyrion saying that Daenerys was going crazy all along and they pretended otherwise.

  • peacechickification
    peacechickification 15 days ago

    my main concern of the last season is all of the viewers that either don't have the ability or the will to see how these characters exist all around us in real life, and expect their hand to be held through everything instead of being able to be empathetic to the characters and figure out themselves why these characters act like this.
    the beauty of this show is that it's not in a vacuum, it's a fantasy show that shows us our own world, instead of an idealized one.

    • Sheogorath
      Sheogorath 13 days ago

      I'd like to see on how you'd elaborate on that.

  • nosoynadaoriginal
    nosoynadaoriginal 15 days ago

    OK, but... King Aerys II was a good king, it's been said many times, until he became mad, OVER THE COURSE OF YEARS, cause he developed senile dementia. Being ruthless is not the same as being mad... Even the mad king, he burned the Starks cause he felt threatened, he wanted to burn King's Landing cause he already lost, cause he was going to die anyway. The argument of "CrAzY pEoPlE aRe JuSt CrAzY" is stupid and lazy, making a "mad" character do whatever is convenient for the conflict to keep going is poor writing.

  • Max Covfefe
    Max Covfefe 15 days ago +1

    "Foreshadowing Is Not Character Development..." I wish someone had told that to the writers of The Bible. An entire religion based on foreshadowing.

  • JarrettHouston
    JarrettHouston 16 days ago +1

    Love the video, couldn't agree more.

  • AC4ace
    AC4ace 16 days ago +6

    "(Her) Dragons burned very, very many people." I've just realized why this doesn't sit right with me. Prior to King's Landing, her dragons had burned, by my count (and discounting the Lannister army at the Goldroad), 11 people: Qartheen Warlock (forget his name), Kraznys, 4 or 5 Astapor soldiers, 2 Merenese 'nobles', and 2 Tarlys. Can't count Drogon's kills in the fighting pit, as Dany wasn't controlling him then, and it's not fair to count those offscreen, as there's no way to fairly count those. And I'd be surprised if she was shown burning more than 50 Lannister soldiers in the battle of the Goldroad. Even taking those she burned by other means (Miri maz Dur, the Khals and their bloodriders), I don't think she even broke 100.
    And we can't fairly include the Lannister army, as that was war, and it's fair for her to use her dragons in war. After all, remember when Tyrion used Wildfire to burn Hundreds, if not THOUSANDS, at the Battle of Blackwater Bay? No one called him mad for doing that, and death by Wildfire is MUCH worse than death by dragonfire, as you can at least put out dragonfire.
    So, 11 killed by dragonfire, another 2 dozen or so by other fire. Spread over 6 years or so. Given the context, I find it hard to use this as justification for what D&D had her do at King's Landing.

  • Som Guy
    Som Guy 16 days ago +5

    People mention foreshadowing moments like its super duper brilliant

  • Ariadne Wolf
    Ariadne Wolf 16 days ago +1

    I love this video!! Foreshadowing are seeds the writers have planted, but character development is the growth of those seeds until they reshape a character's personality and coping methods.
    Love it.
    And I think it's absolutely true that the downfall of various Starks felt compelling and satisfying, because their deaths were so clearly the result of their own poor judgment and poor choices.
    Yet as the video suggests, Dany seems screwed either way. If she listens to her advisers, she loses; if she doesn't, she's perceived as the Mad Queen. If she reacts with rage or trauma, then she's being an evil crazy Targaryen; if she does not, then she loses her people who are closest to her, and she loses battles.
    Bottom line: Dany went crazy because she's a girl and she's feminine and to the showrunners, that makes her crazy, or on the way to crazy. They didn't think they needed any justification other than that.
    Turns out, they were wrong.

  • Bob Spencer
    Bob Spencer 16 days ago

    perfect ending to a perfect series

  • Praneeth
    Praneeth 17 days ago

    These folks played their roles for so long in GOT, that their real life psychology has changed.
    Look at Missandae. Folded hands, standing still, going along with Dan yet has a independent thought, speaking in low voice, attentive, confident yet humble.
    Look at Greyworm: Leaning towards Missandae, Laughing along with the team (dependent thought), naive yet bold.
    Look at Dan: "Best season ever" - dauntless, very confident, intelligent yet not wise (definitely needs an adviser- she should have kept Olenna and get rid of Tyrion).

  • SkyLight Gameuse
    SkyLight Gameuse 17 days ago

    I agree with a lot of things you explained really well, when Ned was killed or when the Red Wedding happened, we believed it no matter how hard it was, it was well-written, events unfolded with great precision. However, what happened in the end, not only for Dany but for many other characters (Jon, Tyrion, Jaime, etc) was rather awkward, shallow, we couldn't recognize these characters anymore.
    And the foreshadowing everyone is talking about is irrevelent, each time Dany killed people (before the mass murder) like Mirri, Xaro Xoan Daxos or the Tarly's, she did what many other characters did: Ned in the pilot when he taught his kids to behead traitors, Jon killing Oliie and other NW guys, etc.
    As you said, even Arya and Jaime have been cruel, so why is it okay for others but not Dany?
    She had to do like Ned said, show who's the boss especially after a terrible treason.
    I think it would have been a better twist if she had been killed for example, because this is too much. Let's imagine if they had done that with Jon, no one would believe it either.

  • Sarke Talovic
    Sarke Talovic 17 days ago +1

    character development related to Daenerys is literally all over the series. Example: Dany shows mercy to someone. That someone betrays her. She learns that it is better to be ruthless than mercyful. Tragedies strike her from season to season, shaping her into a person she becomes in season 8. No one is born a villain, they become a villain, and she is perfect example of this. There is a lot of videos like this, trying to give ''arguments'' why the series is bad... but I think it all boils down to the fact that you don't like the ending. Trust me, when the books comes out, it will have same ending.

    • Sheogorath
      Sheogorath 16 days ago +3

      Dumb & Dumber and (a "perfect example" of ) Dumbest ??

  • Lindsey Stein
    Lindsey Stein 17 days ago

    Do you really think Daenerys helped with the white walkers to save the world? I think slightly. Mostly she did it for her own interest and jon’s. How would she rule everything if the white walkers killed everyone?

  • shingeki no
    shingeki no 17 days ago +3

    Thx from France for the subtiles !

  • Tom Brearley-Smith
    Tom Brearley-Smith 17 days ago +1

    Dutch Van Der Linde’s descent into madness in Red Dead Redemption 2 made more sense than Daenerys’ in Game of Thrones Season 8.

  • Kimberly Bradshaw
    Kimberly Bradshaw 17 days ago

    I appreciate your points and agree that there were moments through out the series and that they rushed the whole process for the last season. But I think that even with these "seeds" Daenerys didn't have to become the mad queen. A family's disposition to madness isn't enough because all of these characters had a choice. Sad that an awesome character was written to poorly. But luckily we have fans that have made better endings lol

  • Leonardo Ruiz
    Leonardo Ruiz 17 days ago

    It was a good story, then a rushed average story which didn't even have the right ending. It had the ending of the story.

  • Zero
    Zero 17 days ago +2

    I was watching some of the 2nd, 3rd and 4th season episodes with her in them and the character is just so unrecognizable with how she is supposed to end up. Trying to reconcile someone who wouldn't leave slavers bay when bribed because of her empathy for the slaves and caused her to become "the breaker of chains" getting reduced to "Targaryens gonna do crazy" is bad writing.

    • Zero
      Zero 8 days ago

      @Alexander Schmall When she was outside Yunkai (Season 3) her advisors tried to convince her to move on to Westeros since there were no soldiers to be gained by taking Yunkai, but she said 200,000 slaves were 200,000 reasons to take the city.

    • Alexander Schmall
      Alexander Schmall 8 days ago

      I thought she stayed in Slaver's Bay in order to learn how to rule and gain experience?

  • AgnesJXmonkeys
    AgnesJXmonkeys 17 days ago +1

    It's Sansa the biggest bitch in the North's fault. I don't even understand why she hates Dany so bad .I mean I know that the Mad King burned her uncle and grandfather. But the Lannisters butchered her father,mother and brother and yet she has a soft spot for Tyrion? The North owes Dany so much. Even if Arya is the Hero of Winterfell, they wouldn't go that far without Dany's army and dragons.

  • Patches O'Hoolahan
    Patches O'Hoolahan 17 days ago +4

    This is EXACTLY how I feel about Dany's ending. You've said it all for me.

  • Sheogorath
    Sheogorath 17 days ago

    1:18 Well, I would deny that "bits of groundwork have been laid out for Mad Queen Daenerys". Without prove this is just an assertion.
    7:45 another one: "....because it's something in her. Find the mistake.
    I'm talking about the rules applying to syllogism. If the conclusions which shall prove a statement to be true don't follow logical rules,
    then that conclusion is just false and proves nothing. Statement might still be true. Or it might be false.

  • AdriGoddess
    AdriGoddess 17 days ago

    Do you have this in written form, by any chance? It's such a compelling video but I would love to read it over and over again (I'm weird and collect articles).

  • PepsieIsFizzy
    PepsieIsFizzy 18 days ago

    2:57 tiddy

  • Lau
    Lau 18 days ago

    I fell like arya and sansa have more reasons, personnal reasons to be brutal. Their enemies harmed their loved ones or themselves directly. Danaeris did not get harmed directly by most of the people she killed.

  • ga21351
    ga21351 18 days ago

    Bran leaves Treee in season 6 and goes to power. Bring NK army to winterfell to hit Deny and kill Jorah and then plot to kill Jon - Deny love so heard broken Deny burn city do Bran can be elected King. That was plot.

  • Leyton Breese
    Leyton Breese 18 days ago +1

    What's that aDoS cover art?

  • Ben Iverson
    Ben Iverson 18 days ago

    The only way the Daenerys turning evil thing works for me is that if you assume she has a psychic connection to control her dragons and summon them they might also have influence over her. So V and R are both good boys but D is a very bad boy. So she starts out with two good angels on one shoulder and one bad devil on the other. She has to sacrifice the two good angels for the greater good and at the end she's left with only the devil telling her to destroy.

  • Rodrigo Finotti Rezende

    #audienceremembers

  • Olly Davis
    Olly Davis 19 days ago

    The way I see it Daenerys was kind and compassionate to the innocent but brutal to her enemies. The only explanation I can see is that she saw the population of kings landing as her enemies. But then again, their is no justification for the civilians of kings landing to be her enemy

  • Lebogang Sekwati
    Lebogang Sekwati 19 days ago

    She kinda forgot to about the iron fleet. Even though it was right there in her face and she was flying towards it, she still kinda forgot about it

  • Charles Brown
    Charles Brown 19 days ago +3

    Anyone defending Danys decision to nukr an entire city is an idiot. There are tons of examples that she was always going to be the a good queen, and there are no examples that she was going to end up being the mad queen.

  • Griffly Art
    Griffly Art 19 days ago +2

    My sister and I literally cannot speak because she thinks this show ended perfectly and I’m on the analytical side which was left feeling empty after the finale.
    I wrote better fanfiction at the age of 12 than these writers did for season 8.

  • James Anderson
    James Anderson 19 days ago

    If you want to talk character development, you have to discuss Danny’s advisors having to repeatedly try to curb her bloodthirsty instincts. You have to discuss her decision to use the Dothraki - people whom she knew were given to excess violence and to rapine - in pursuit of her ambition. You have to discuss her decision to free her child-burning dragons even after she obviously knew they weren’t “safe” towards innocent people. You have to discuss the way she chose to abandon the freed slaves after ruling them ceased to be easy and to bring her the ego-stroking adulation of her subjects. You have to discuss the former slave telling her “Now you are the law” and her denying it, then taking the law into her own hands anyway, executing him without trial.
    Danny has been developing throughout the show towards the direction of violent power-mad tyrant, but many chose not to see it and instead claim that the turn was sudden. Power and ambition have been taking her steadily further from the damaged and vulnerable Danny towards the arrogant, violence-prone soul of ambition she was gradually becoming. It’s not the individual things - using fire against enemies, burning slavers, etc; its the the ever-present creeping progression which has brief exceptions but even those exceptions are questionable. Her fighting the Night King? She expected her victory to bring her hordes of hero-worshipping Northerners eager to do anything she wanted (just like in Meereen) and was so obviously angry and regretful when it didn’t happen. John Snow? Even tyrants want bed-partners.

  • Patricia Pearson
    Patricia Pearson 19 days ago

    One way you could tell that the character arc was sloppy and rushed was that Clarke's acting grew unconvincing. She couldn't buy into what was happening. She had a couple of facial expressions -- one of them shown in a clip in this video -- that looked like amateur, regional theatre acting.

  • Paige Resch
    Paige Resch 19 days ago

    I think lose/lose situations are kind of the point of the last two seasons. Her advisers suggest mercy but you cannot take over a continent without taking a lot of lives. Danny could have chosen to rule the easy kingdoms or just stay in Meereen. The fact that she insisted on sailing to Westeros in the first place and then insisted on taking the capitol shows that ruling is the most important thing to her. She fought the white walkers because they were a threat to her, so really, it’s been several seasons since she made a big sacrifice. This doesn’t make her “mad”, but she also hasn’t been benevolent for a long time. Once she had any kind of real power, she only craved it more and thought even more highly of herself.

  • Replica Films
    Replica Films 20 days ago

    Honestly the story always seemed mediocre too me dinareas cant get where she is realisticly and the players who should make a diffrence are killed of for shockvalue it seems I was right all along game of thrones format doesnt work and was poorly thought out while the hero standing up against evil may be considered "generic" it is still the most natural type of event that could happen im not saying itz bad neccirarily but I really dont think this series or maybe even the books have nearly as much intullectual value as series like starwars or lord of the rings had its just based on an inferior idea and while the writters were jewish and thus ruined any possible chance of the series.being good I do think this series was doomed from the star with bad ideas of inversion upon normal logical story events

  • Xavier Andres
    Xavier Andres 20 days ago

    This could have been a great character arc showcasing a slowly decent into madness but instead they butchered my Dany in the spawn of 3 fuckin episodes while literally every other main character important development had room to breath each season. I'm still very salty so I like to think Team Dany stayed in Meeren.

  • 54markl
    54markl 20 days ago +1

    Maybe George Martin is raving mad.

    • jean-louis pech
      jean-louis pech 20 days ago

      No it is an idea from Martin.
      In fact when you look well the character, you see that the potential is there since the beginning, but it is hidden by the context in Essos, and the fact that she follows opinions of good advisors.
      At the end of season06 when the fleet of the masters attack Meereen, her personal plan was to destroy the fleet and the cities with her dragons , Tyrion gave her a more intelligent plan where she take the fleet else some ships and keep the cities intact .

  • 54markl
    54markl 20 days ago +2

    In the end, the show became a cartoon. It’s not enough to have a lot of sensational action, you have to have some intelligence too. This has no intelligence behind it, only the shrill panic of deficient writers stampeding toward the exit. Ignominious. I loved this show. How can I love it now?

  • Sharon Joyce
    Sharon Joyce 20 days ago +1

    Thank you so much for this clear explanation of why the end was so frustrating, even depressing. It's just a show, but it was also a depiction of a meaningful, moral world...in which decisions mattered, like you said. Dany was given no options and no agency. She became a victim, a puppet, of the plot. All her prior intentions and victories and moral courage just didn't count. Nada. Seems like a pretty good definition of hell itself.

    • jean-louis pech
      jean-louis pech 20 days ago

      Her intention about Westeros was :
      bust Cersei , check
      take the iron throne, check
      Rulling all Westeros, with everyone bending the knee, and submit to her rigid and egocentric point of view, or die. failed -> leads John to kill her

      What she did in Essos has no impact on Westeros else : dragon, unsullied, Dothrakis.

      Daenerys was corrupted by the ultimate power, and was too impulsive and egocentric. This is why she is falling at the end.
      Iron throne in GOT = precious ring in LOTR. At the end she is like gollum.
      Gollum get the ring , and die just after, while the ring is destroyed by the fire just after.

      Prior intention? like burning cities until the ground? dothrakis destroying stone houses in Westeros? burning what she dislike?

  • Natasha Dolgushkin
    Natasha Dolgushkin 20 days ago

    Thank you for putting this in such an articulate way. Yes - they didn't take us there with them, that is exactly the problem.

  • Lou C
    Lou C 21 day ago +1

    I agree almost completely. But IMO the fact that there is no right choice for the character can also be a successful scenario. Isn’t it what happens within tragedies ?

  • OhManHolyShit JK
    OhManHolyShit JK 21 day ago

    Preach

  • Ryuichi
    Ryuichi 21 day ago

    GET OUT OF MY HEAD, TROPE ANATOMY!!! 😉

  • noelliex
    noelliex 21 day ago

    very good video you are so right

  • sybyly
    sybyly 21 day ago

    spot on, Mr Trope. there's a quote going about from Mr Martin himself - from before this travesty unravelled, i believe - about how it's ok to shock and surprise, but it has to grow from character and situations, and it mustn't become shock for the sake of shock.

    have you made a video about the final wrapping-up episode? i was hoping something in it would redeem what i had seen a little. instead i kept thinking i might literally vomit. during season 7, i was thinking Hodor might become king. i honestly think that would've sucked less than what we were given.

  • Max Power
    Max Power 21 day ago

    Burning your enemies alive is not a sign of insanity, is a way of sending a message. Ask Gengis Khan, or most of our history's conquerors, about fear.

    • jean-louis pech
      jean-louis pech 20 days ago

      They are not good peoples, it sign of evilness, of psychopathy, etc.... ( whatever word you want to give ) .
      Her father was called the mad king because he wanted to burn peoples of KL.
      Daenerys is called the mad queen because she has burned peoples of KL.
      There is a logic in the nick name.

  • perimele6
    perimele6 21 day ago +2

    D & D are fuckbois who feel little responsibility to their female characters. It feels like they're always using their female characters.

  • Elon Mush
    Elon Mush 21 day ago +1

    Mad queen Dany isn't the problem. I don't think anyone would say so. It just was not done in a genuine way. It kind of happened on screen from one episode to the next. The main problem of the finale is definitely Bran becoming king. He didn't do anything in the entire season and they make him king... because why not? In this world it just does not make much sense. If all characters behaved like we know them, somebody would have revealed Jon's true identity as the rightful heir and he would be king.

    • jean-louis pech
      jean-louis pech 20 days ago

      Bran king is the end planned by Martin.
      The explanation would pass better in the book than in the TV show.
      Bran fits the answer of the best king : he does not want the throne, he is wise, he is not driven by bad emotions, etc....