What's the deal with Kayle and Morgana? || update design & lore discussion

  • Published on Feb 23, 2019
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    NECRIT - The Complete Story of Kayle and Morgana: tvclip.biz/video/kCsYg6nqn6w/video.html
    Kayle and Morgana have finally received their update - which became a Bit Of A Deal in the community as a lot of people feel like especially Kayle wasn't a great design and needs some more work.
    Well. I'm here to talk a bit about what the re-designs do RIGHT... and then spend the majority of the video talking about what they do wrong, because HOO BOY there's a lot of non-optimal design decisions going on in here.
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Comments • 508

  • s13g1313
    s13g1313 5 hours ago

    My assumption for kayle losing her helmet in her final ascension is that she doesnt NEED the helmet anymore. Up until that, she needs the helmet because she DOES still feel and she needs to hide that, once she ascends, she doesnt need to hide her face anymore because no amount of begging would move her emotionally anymore

  • unidune te
    unidune te 6 days ago

    I am 4 secs into the video i bet 40bucks he is gonna talk about kayle's thighs

  • Coffee toffee ofarwell

    to be honest kayle is really a bitch like kayle "kill magic magic no good bad bad" and morgana who is actualy "saying no demacia is being irrational not all magic is bad and magic users" and when they both fight and the energy from there blades killed there father and morgana is like does he deserve this your broken way of justice and kayle is like yup as I like to see it kayle is blinded by her own light not being able to see true justice she sees divine justice and not mortal justice and what I see for morgana is while her sister faced the light she became more and more intertwined with runeterra as she met magics as she noticed the light maddening her sister she looked darker not blinded by light she sees the pure justice

  • Elynn Z
    Elynn Z 25 days ago +1

    punk fat morg is all I want for christmas

  • aTocan Boi
    aTocan Boi Month ago +2

    when TB Skyen has a stroke

  • squirrelbuddi
    squirrelbuddi Month ago

    I wanted Morgana to be a Baba Yaga type XD and Kayle to still be the faceless emotionless sword of justice. That's why I use Judgement Kayle. Aside from color I think the armor is way better and she still has a helmet of sorts! :D If that was what her base skin looked closer to I'd get on board.

  • sourmoon uwu
    sourmoon uwu 2 months ago

    the fact that kayle can move around in her armor underlines her fanaticism for me like you would associate "inflexible, simple" armor with collectedness and calmness, which i don't think kayle is at all. shes talking loudly if not screaming in her voice lines, and not simply following a philosophy shes convinced about but obsessively tries to cleanse the world of all evil, this doesn't contradict why she is so strict about her philosophy as well, which you might associate with duller armor again. furthermore, i just thought about her angel wings, as she flies with them and seem to be very strong and "impulsive" when she attacks, i assumed her armor had to work with that in a way? but i agree that the breast spike doesn't really make any sense

  • bloodyhairYT
    bloodyhairYT 3 months ago +1

    Maybe morgana is a emo gothic punk girl

    I mean she looks like one

  • Dalyn Rivers
    Dalyn Rivers 4 months ago

    I personally like morgana' s design

    FLORAL SHOPPER 5 months ago

    You were pretty spot on with you critcisms, a lot of them I had as well but I'm glad you were able to explain them in an understandable way. :D
    I personally like them both but at the same could be waaaaay better.
    In regards to Kayle, I feel the heavy armor could have also signified the weight of her task and living up to the legacy of her mother, while at the same time could've shown flaws that represent the (few) human emotions she has plus the guilt she carries about her father's death, making her a much more interesting and expandable character imo.
    Sidenote, I HATE THOSE SHOULDER PADS! They look AWFUL and I feel they interfere with her beautiful wings' shape.
    For her ulti I think if they used Iron Inquisitor Kayle or a similar comcept it would've been way cooler but could also make a point about her character: it would've made her look menacing, ruthless, cold and completely unhesitant to act in the name of justice, in other words, the perfect embodiment of her ideals, but at the same time ironic because she would become what she despises the most; the color palette would contrast with the Demacia we know; the mask(?) would make her expressionless and thus unable to show any human emotion, it wouldn't be unrecognizable for any human but it wouldn't be familiar either.
    Last note about Kayle, YEEEEEEEES I wish she had an athletic built, first time I saw her I thought she looked so stupid with those wide-ass hips, concealing them could also play into the Christian ideas about sexuality; and ffs that hair and those red ass lips look so stupid, she looks like a fucking digimon or something.
    As for morgana, YEEEEEEEES I agree that she doesn't really give that "here for the people" vibe, she looks like a wannabe goth-angel cosplayer lmao She's *too* pretty imo, I think they could made her feel much more human like you and me but at the same time (maybe) vain and that would explain her makeup. I'm not entirely sure on the punk aesthetic, it wouldn't be a bad choice but I think it would be odd for her, I think rito could explore different historical periods of rebellion and see what fits her the most in the context of her story/the world (though nothing really comes to my mind rn).
    Aaaaaaa love your LoL vids man they inspire me a lot and make me think about my decisions when designing my characters, I love LoL and I want to understand/express why some things work and others don't but at the same time listen to what others have to say and grow my knowledge and I'm so glad your channel exists, keep it up man!

  • CVince A
    CVince A 5 months ago +1

    Those suggested fan art Kayle remodel looks nice!!
    You know artist, when they see an original art they tend to make it look better i guess in their own version, but that doesn't mean the original is any less looks better...

  • CVince A
    CVince A 5 months ago +1

    For Kayle's part, yeah you made some strong negative remarks and i agree to some of them, except maybe of her taking some of her armor especially her helmet, as for me it means she's so powerful why would she need a helmet just to protect and hide her face?, she's beyond those petty things now, not to mention to me as if Kayle becoming arrogant as she grows in power, so taking them off because of it makes sense to me, as for her overall new armor, its intended to be flexible, though you made a good remark of her "old" look in terms of their armor, the thing is it looks ridiculously unrealistic, i mean its so impractical in a fast flying battle, she should be having a hard time flying because of how that armor looks heavy... And dont think it as Spandex, think of it as a flexible metal woven cloth or something 😂 though that sharp thing on her breastplate, i didn't noticed that until you mentioned it... 😅

  • CVince A
    CVince A 5 months ago +1

    Again also, i STRONGLY disagree on the part you said their new designs are generic, as for me its just perfect, not too flashy and overdesigned, and in some part of it, it works and its not like their new armor and weapon is impossible to wield and use it on battles, and its not like it defied the laws of reality, it just perfect and nothing too extravagant, unlike some LoL champions whose designs and armor makes no sense and too overly designed, well for me at least 😅

  • CVince A
    CVince A 5 months ago +1

    Not to mention their drive because of their parents adds a twist and a bit relatable too, yeah you can say its cliche but it still works, for them at least....

  • CVince A
    CVince A 5 months ago +1

    Also i kinda disagree that part where you said, that it could've been them instead of their mother becamed aspects, yeah but the thing that is so used up so many times already, people climbing up to mt targon to become aspects is quite overrated to me, at least they made it different on how to acquire its power, in which is to be conceived by an aspect vessel itself, in which it was the first thing ever that happened before....

    PICKLEDBROCCOLI 5 months ago +2

    There is this Cartoon Network show/series named Steven Universe. This show has two characters:
    •Yellow Diamond
    A law abiding ruler of" Homeworld". She is a character that rejects the concept of emotions and instead, acts with the rules and etiquette.
    •Blue Diamond
    The complete opposite of Yellow Diamond. She cares more about emotions and has the power of pathokinesis. She is the one who cares more about reason and compassion.
    I think, Kayle and Morgana's designs would look better if they took more insipiration from su. Yellow having more sharp and striking shapes and Blue having a rounded and curved shilhouette. Also, I wish Morg wore a cloak or some kind.

  • presentoripero
    presentoripero 6 months ago

    I actually don't agree with anything in this video

  • Yunus Akay
    Yunus Akay 7 months ago

    About the Kayle helmet part... If we base on the christianity aspect and only on that, Seraphim are very close to god and divine power. They are very bright, they radiate light and you can't stare at them let alone their face. It's a complicated matter but as Kayle ascends and loses her helmet, that kinda makes sense.

  • Loward
    Loward 7 months ago

    You should take voice lines into account more. While the visual design struggles in the ways pointed out, I feel that in cases like these, their voice lines really reinforce the characters and the intentions behind them.

  • Aleksandra X
    Aleksandra X 7 months ago

    I used to play Morgana a lot, and i can say that new Morgana have to much.. sexiness in her clothes, moves and so. Old Morgana didnt care about it. It wasnt so important for her.

  • Shane Klein
    Shane Klein 8 months ago

    So a critique on the ceitique's you have.
    Kayle for the most part I agree but I believe the removal of the helmet is to show she no longer needs it to be emotionless rather now she has reached a point that even when looking at her face you find nothing but cold justice.
    There is a trope in fantasy that the reason one wears a mask/ helmet is to hide there emotions so the removal is to show there is nothing to hide and she has truly become cold. Other then that ya her new armor is just bad.
    Morgana design I feel is a bit plain but in the right place. She would not dress like a hippy mainly because that style dosnt exist in lol( out side of skins). She wants to protect and help those being opressed in a medieval kingdom she would need to be in a place of power to do so and dressing out side of the norm would put her in even greater opposition and put her whole operation at risk.
    My issue is Morgan kit not matching her lore. Her kit is very cold and controlling. If shown her kit and in-game design I would think she is some kind of witch that seeks to bind and torture someone not help them out.

  • V. Sky
    V. Sky 8 months ago

    Hi T B Skyen, I'm not at all a character designer nor am I well knowledgable about it, you are the only for of this I really know of. But none the less I had a thought as u were going through their outfits. It seems to me that they're both trying to be something they aren't, kayle being flexible unlike her personality, but I really noticed it in Morgana. Her, as I believe u put it, aristocratic get up is more or less opposing what her ideas are. And another point I have is her chained wings, while I get is bc of her wanting humanity, just comes off as restrictive and more of something kayle might have, seeing as she leaning more towards rigid stay in one line type of justice.
    So my thoughts on this, are what if they're showing their more human side in that, they're both resembling the other's ideals as a way to show their longing for each other because they are still sisters.
    I don't mean this in the oh they miss each other so they dress each other type of way, I mean it in the as humans (or partially human) they have a need for family as it come biologically, so perhaps they don't know they're doing it bc its a subconscious, primal need.

    (im in no way saying hes wrong just putting my opinion out there)

  • Bernardo Schotgues
    Bernardo Schotgues 8 months ago

    If they wanted to make Kayle loose her armor in her transformation, she could *turn* into armor, like a gold statue of herself, that is unable to move her face.

  • Zachary Arneson
    Zachary Arneson 9 months ago

    im someone in wisconsin who liked your video (:

  • Tristan Keech
    Tristan Keech 9 months ago

    What’s the deal with pathfinder please

  • Madness
    Madness 9 months ago

    I feel like magic the gathering's Avacyn was an inspiration for kayle's new design. Particularly in the story of shadows over innistrad/eldritch moon

  • Emma Sibayan
    Emma Sibayan 10 months ago

    Kalye is bad and morgana is good

  • Karl Holde
    Karl Holde 10 months ago +1

    I like that Kayle loses her helmet in her final form because IMO, armor suggests that there could be a real person underneath. And if she is no longer wearing a helmet, and still appears impersonal, her transformation would be complete. I do however think riot could have done a much better job of this. I would have done it in 4 steps, in a more metamophis kind of way,

    1. She starts human, without a helmet.
    2. Then she gets a half helmet, like the one she has now, which close her of from being vulnerable.
    3. After that she upgrades her helmet to a more full helmet, making her completly impersonal.
    4. Finally she loses the helmet a revels a completly inhuman face underneath, strongly contrasting from her starting form. Maybe she is litterally blindfolded. maybe she just has a much sterner expression, im sure riot could come up with something cool.

  • Colin Hazel
    Colin Hazel 10 months ago

    So basically you said they should've kept the sister's old design concepts except make it look new. Am I following? 👀
    That first fan-made one for Kayle pretty much nailed it the best, whilst still keeping the skeletal design of what Riot implemented. Well done by them! 😌👌🏽

  • Gino Cheng
    Gino Cheng 10 months ago

    how does Kayle even fit her hair into that tiny as helmet

  • Iri Miriam
    Iri Miriam 10 months ago

    1.) im gonna be honest, the spiky hair and stuff is actually kinda bothering me. It’s just a bit much.....
    2.) morgana still looks kinda meh. Honestly, although the bound wings are a good choice, i kinda hate how they didn’t just use chains.
    3.) why does the helmet come ooooooffff 😩

  • Vladebear
    Vladebear 10 months ago

    Hey I was wondering if you could do a vid on one of my fav characters Viewtiful Joe

  • Lieutenant Lemons
    Lieutenant Lemons 10 months ago

    I kinda like the idea of Kayle having an alternate skin that looks similar to old,male aristocratic clothing (like Haru's from persona 5)

  • Jethro Pablo
    Jethro Pablo 10 months ago

    I just noticed that her base should have been the Iron Inquisitor. Fits her. No face, just mask. As she level throughout the game, her headpiece becomes from simple tiara to a glorious crown.

  • The Drum Minor
    The Drum Minor 10 months ago

    Well, for what it's worth, you could interpret Morganas look to be like that of a Madame, or a woman who runs a brothel. Brothels are not only VERY human but also very..... Not..... High class (if you get my drift)

  • Jovan Pavičić
    Jovan Pavičić 10 months ago

    Your Kayle idea is awesome but Morgana should be slim, fragile looking, weak and not chubby. I feel that if she looks chuby it would feel like she is greedy, careless about others that are hungry and starving. She is somebody who wants to make runaways and homeless people happy, like it is said in her lore. If she would look chubby, she would feel even more aristocratic. Being able to get chubby needs money to buy that much food. Like I kinda get your contrast idea but it doesn't resemble Morgana as a person.

  • fabian webstars
    fabian webstars 10 months ago

    Thanks for the video, very awesome.
    I would have liked to hear a short version instead of all the text ^^ If I wanna know that I just go to the league site. Im here for your way of telling the story.
    I completly agree with you about the storry!! Morgana looks like a puber in 'complaining about sis' phase
    Kayle is like the female version of pantheon, but weaker

  • Chelsea
    Chelsea 10 months ago

    ....Wait, I just realized something: if Kayle needed to ascend to gain six wings, does that mean Morgana has already ascended? Morgana has six wings, it's just that her top pair are smaller and somewhat...deformed? While her bottom pair have forgotten use and seem to have devolved into useless feathered extremities that looks like a tail.

  • Ivan AP
    Ivan AP 10 months ago

    Question. As for kayle´s helmetless transformation. The lore says that she left demacia to get ascended in Targon. So from that perspective and being an aspect. she wouldn't have power over her final look. Because she would be embodying what targon wants as the aspect of justice, so while her actions are not that of a savior her look would be. of someone pure and good because that is what targon wants her to be like, or at least that is what I think. Just like and angel made beautiful and graceful but with a bad mindset. and morgana has a total different look because she is not accepting targon completely.

  • Moroza
    Moroza 10 months ago

    The helmet coming off could mean she's better about masking her face and since she has no emotions she has no reason to hide her face. That said, I agree with you on Kayle's design, just playing devil's advocate.

  • Pan con mantequilla
    Pan con mantequilla 10 months ago

    Ok but nobody is going to talk about how Morgana's bounded wings look like a tail?

  • Bailey Lee
    Bailey Lee 10 months ago

    Lmao riot needs to watch these.

  • Just Neutraling
    Just Neutraling 10 months ago

    Well Riot can't change Kayle or Morgana too far away from their original character model. Kayle shed some of her old armor and done a spandex which is the fashion trend in demacia (seriously go check on all the female champ come from demacia), while have the ability to become more divine which kinda work. She get rid of her helmet because she is ready to let the world see that how determine she is under the armor and won't yield to any force. While Morgana is just a straight up upgrade to her old look and change the wing part of her to make it so see can't ever fly or associate with the divine in anyway is cool. I would love for riot to actually make her sound and skin that show the compassionate side of her during her reign in Demacia or while she travel after her fallout with her sister. Otherwise love your take on those champ and keep going at it.

  • Abraham Diaz
    Abraham Diaz 10 months ago

    kayle: maybe the idea of her loosing her helment is a sing that she is following the wrong kind of rules the "strict military" rules, andis a hint by teh aspect she represent like "hey, the right rules are teh celestial ones" thats woudl expain why armor is kind off useless when you are this celestial being (at least for me), every other note aout her desing im 100% with you
    morgana: see, here i have my doubts, as with kayle, maybe her high society dressings is something done on purpose and not "hey this would look cool" kind off desing, maybe it expresses her inability to let behind her divine aspect, unconciuslly she likes being this celestial aspect of justice but because she has this image of "justice is fake" because of her sister, she tries to deny it, of course here we come back to the "2 girls with mommy and daddy issues" but you get the point, every otehr note about morg im 100% with you

  • joshua burgos
    joshua burgos 10 months ago +2

    I feel like the nitpick of Kayle is 100% true, her armor is TOO sleek, it's like 0 suit Samus, if she started off in a heavy metal suit like the original Kayle skin then she'd her armor for white targonian robes like a true angel going from mortal who needs protection to a holy God, unafraid of the ravages of war and uncompromising in her pure power I'd be hyped. The decorations on the armor are idiotic. As a KAYLE main I believe that this ironic inflexibility while her armor is soft and flexible would be an amazing duality.
    As for Morgana I personally love it, I simply wish that the DRESS was torn and ragged, her makeup smudged and her feathers more disheveled and it would scream "I am a once decadent immortal throwing it all away to walk among the weakest of you". That's just my opinion though

  • jordan licup
    jordan licup 10 months ago

    But here the dark is more good really

  • Shinbi Love
    Shinbi Love 10 months ago

    I like the helmet off just wish her face were prettier but She obviously is having issues with her beliefs just by listening to her voicelines.

  • Bubbletankking
    Bubbletankking 10 months ago

    I really wish they'd just put all their champ designs by TBS, so much wasted time could be avoided.

  • somehermit
    somehermit 10 months ago

    Great analysis. I completely agree. What a missed opportunity. :(

  • Lílian Arruda
    Lílian Arruda 10 months ago

    Aah I love your videos, TBSkyen!

  • Celal A
    Celal A 10 months ago

    They are dressed like that especially morgana just for the simple fact that they " need " to appeal to the players , if they was simply designed to look more simple and stuff the player base would have said that riot did a shitty job .

  • uzumaki_rakku
    uzumaki_rakku 10 months ago

    Another way they could've made Kayle and Morgana opposites in terms of physiques is to really emphasize Kayle's androgyny. Morgana has always had a really feminine design and I think that's fine, but Kayle's old base design was always a little androgynous because of the armour. And since angels (as well as many other divine beings) in mythology and religion are often depicted as being without gender, Kayle being significantly more androgynous than Morgana would've been a great way to illustrate her aspirations towards divinity.
    Also, a lot of female athletes in strength-heavy sports tend to have physiques that are not traditionally feminine, so that's another reason why it would be better for Kayle to look more androgynous with her update, instead of less.

  • Kizuna Hoshino
    Kizuna Hoshino 10 months ago

    I actually think it makes sense for Morg to have an athletic build
    She can't fight Kayle at all otherwise
    I mean, wielding a sword probably takes more muscle than wielding magic, but from the amount of force she seems to use in her spellcast animations, I'd say it's reasonable

  • Welcome To Chillies
    Welcome To Chillies 10 months ago

    Legue Players
    Lore Addicts 5%
    Cool Design and Artwork 95%
    No one really care about lore lol

    • T B Skyen
      T B Skyen  10 months ago

      And yet, hundreds of thousands of cumulative views on my videos talking about the lore.

      Scientists Baffled By Local Man's TVclip Channel

  • Boosted Bonobos Inc.
    Boosted Bonobos Inc. 10 months ago +1

    I think this is one Tb Skyen video where i have to strongly disagree. Your points on Kayle i agree with because that armor looks like it would puncture a lung or something,but Morgana,just,no.... A.Her dress doesnt have to be a symbol of her Social status or whatever,her dress is something she probably thought looked good so she wore it and she looks great in it,Its a million times better then what she was wearing before and im happy with the new design.Also your take on body types,Making Morgana fat wouldnt make her interesting,it would make her a Fat Fallen Angel,which sounds liek a joke champion concept. A characters body type,Gender,and Sexuality shouldn't be the only thing that makes someone an interesting or compelling character and i think that making Morgana fat would not add anything besides a reason to not take her stance seriously.I find her a compelling character as is so i dont see why she has to be a different body type to be "interesting" or "complex"

  • Ellie count
    Ellie count 10 months ago

    i imagined morgana being skinny like less curves. and being more creepy

  • Chi Johnson
    Chi Johnson 10 months ago

    Fat Goth girl is now my dream. Make it happen Riot

  • Disalign
    Disalign 10 months ago +1

    I don't know, Kayle showing her face when she becomes divine shows, to me, a sense of apathy and reveals exactly just how uncaring she is about the emotions of those she deems unworthy, and is sort of a proof to the world around her that her face is unchanging and unaffected by emotions; and there is no need to hide her face and potential emotions.

  • Caelem Vaellerek
    Caelem Vaellerek 10 months ago

    Ah the judges from ffxii ❤️❤️❤️

  • Krauser Cruz
    Krauser Cruz 10 months ago

    RIOT releasing a weak female character design? pfff as if, whats next your gonna tell me we need air to live? nonsence.

    For real tough the first time i saw morgana's new design (after ranting for about 2 hours in the Discord about Kayle) i tough she looked pretty good. That was before i knew her lore, you call that "bound wings"? were? all i see is just tiny wings.